In the additional declarations of the phytosanitary certificates should the 45.1 apply to Hoya plants ?
In the Annex IV The 45.1 ( control of Bemisia tabaci ) applies to Herbaceous plants. Herbaceous means plants that are non woody ( non ligneuses ) AND die then restart through cycles.
The Hoya may be non woody but it matters that they are perennial in the sense that they don't die every year or two to restart from the roots. So the 45.1 should not apply.
Also the point 46 is normally mentioned in the declarations and this point says that the plants are treated to eradicate Bemisia tabaci.
However the 46 says that it applies without prejudice to the requirements applicable to the plants listed in .. 45.1 : the Thai phytosanitary services understand that when eradication of Bemisia tabaci has been done ( 46 ) if the plants are herbaceous, then 45.1 must be mentioned. No problem with that.
So why do some agents seem to opt for " herbaceous Hoya " whereas these plants do not die and start from their roots or from seeds periodically ?
Perhaps the cause is a confusing concept in the Annex itself : " HERBACEOUS PERENNIAL " at the point 44. The definition is not given by the Annex.
Hence it could mean any plant that is non woody and lives more than two years. So it would apply to the Hoya.
Are Hoya herbaceous perennials ( herbacees vivaces ) ? No they are not : even if we assume that they are not woody, herbaceous perennial does not mean any plant that is non woody and lives more than two years. We should understand herbaceous perennial as defined in this article in Wikipedia with the idea of growing season in mind : " Perennials, especially small flowering plants, that grow and bloom over the spring and summer, die back every autumn and winter, and then return in the spring from their rootstock, are known as herbaceous perennials. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbaceous_plant Herbaceous perennial and biennial plants have stems that die at the end of the growing season, but parts of the plant survive under or close to the ground from season to season (for biennials, until the next growing season, when they flower and die). New growth develops from living tissues remaining on or under the ground, including roots, a caudex (a thickened portion of the stem at ground level) or various types of underground stems, such as bulbs, corms, stolons, rhizomes and tubers. Examples of herbaceous biennials include carrot, parsnip and common ragwort; herbaceous perennials include potato, peony, hosta, mint, most ferns and most grasses. By contrast, non-herbaceous perennial plants are woody plants which have stems above ground that remain alive during the dormant season and grow shoots the next year from the above-ground parts – these include trees, shrubs and vines.
In a nutshell :
Herbaceous ( non perennial ) : non woody, dies and restarts from roots or seeds within 1 or 2 years ( ex. carrot )
Herbaceous perennial : non woody, dies and restarts from underground parts and lives more than 2 years ( ex. potato )
Hoya are none of the above, they don't die and restart from roots or seeds so they are not herbaceous. Besides, considered as vines they fall within the concept of woody.
Hoya, Hoya seeds, Orchid seeds, Ferns, Fern spores and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
Find all Aleyagarden posts on http://aleyagarden-blog.blogspot.com
Thursday, June 11, 2015
Saturday, June 1, 2013
Defamation campaign
The plants in picture are a joint order by a group of 19 ladies from Sweden of Hoya. The plants were described with heights of 20 cm or 30 cm ( so not sold as XL plants ) on a wholesale list ( not from aleyagarden site ); the conditions of sale on the price list state clearly on the list that we don't replace plants unless we made a mistake.
The EMS parcel was mistakenly sent by the post to the Japanese customs who sent to Sweden ( before we could ask EMS Thailand to get back the plants to Thailand ), and finally was reposted inside Sweden : this travel in 3 steps took 11 days plus the days of reposting inside Sweden.
Here is a summary of the conversation between Aleyagarden and Y representing the group of 19 buyers :
Y : 50% of the plants have arrived dead, you packed too wet, we want replacement in some way
A : send pictures
some pictures are sent ;
A : on these pictures I don't see serious damage or indication of too wet packing, more pictures should arrive ?
Y : no more pictures, the plants have been discarded because they were rotten
A : an other angry customer this month was in a similar situation : mishandling by EMS and travel in 11 days, no pictures to send; but the parcel was reported dry, the reason given was the opposite of yours - "Aleyagarden had sent it too dry the day of packing". All parcels arrive too dry or too wet ( 50/50 ), we always pack with the same methods. We see on your pictures that the finest roots were not overwatered ( structure and color ). Water came in transport from evapotranspiration and root balls of many plants packed together and stressed
escalation :
Y : we want full money back including travel, Swedish customs fees and VAT or we will send the pictures around the world and nobody will buy from Aleyagarden anymore
A : the only mistake I find on my side is that I did not send you pictures of the order before shipping, ( but the picture at time of packing shows the heights : 20 and 30 cm , as indicated in the list, and last year you got similar plants in sizes, I had not sent a pic before either ) so I refund you 30 %
refund of 30% is done
Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : find an expert with a scientific backgroung who could say : I could not regrow most of the plants in your pictures
Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : I found a Hoya hobbyist with a doctorate in genetics / medicine / biology, his report says that most plants can be regrown, even without sophisticated techniques / apparatus ; if we went before a court or a referee the decision would be 100% on my side
Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : I added a new rule in my shop for EMS parcels : you can take an insurance for 50 % of the plant price, let's say you took this insurance and I will resend at half price those that are dead, or resend cuttings but you pay the transport cost. Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : we can't, we are loyal to all customers, we don't replace plants unless we made a mistake, we don't bend the rules for bigger or long term buyers
the campaign starts on the internet , also the remaining pictures are finally released : it appears that the emulation of 18 dissatisfied girls let them to hide pictures of plants that might produce again roots and leaves after the dormancy caused by the travel. In their anger they tried to hide the real state of the plants in order to ease the request of refund - no proof to see - , planning to use public defamation as a threat instead of trying to care for the dormant plants.
Usually when such problems happen the importers send all pictures to sustain their claim and a solution is found such as resending in a new order for free the same plants or cuts with transport paid by the buyer.
The EMS parcel was mistakenly sent by the post to the Japanese customs who sent to Sweden ( before we could ask EMS Thailand to get back the plants to Thailand ), and finally was reposted inside Sweden : this travel in 3 steps took 11 days plus the days of reposting inside Sweden.
Here is a summary of the conversation between Aleyagarden and Y representing the group of 19 buyers :
Y : 50% of the plants have arrived dead, you packed too wet, we want replacement in some way
A : send pictures
some pictures are sent ;
A : on these pictures I don't see serious damage or indication of too wet packing, more pictures should arrive ?
Y : no more pictures, the plants have been discarded because they were rotten
A : an other angry customer this month was in a similar situation : mishandling by EMS and travel in 11 days, no pictures to send; but the parcel was reported dry, the reason given was the opposite of yours - "Aleyagarden had sent it too dry the day of packing". All parcels arrive too dry or too wet ( 50/50 ), we always pack with the same methods. We see on your pictures that the finest roots were not overwatered ( structure and color ). Water came in transport from evapotranspiration and root balls of many plants packed together and stressed
escalation :
Y : we want full money back including travel, Swedish customs fees and VAT or we will send the pictures around the world and nobody will buy from Aleyagarden anymore
A : the only mistake I find on my side is that I did not send you pictures of the order before shipping, ( but the picture at time of packing shows the heights : 20 and 30 cm , as indicated in the list, and last year you got similar plants in sizes, I had not sent a pic before either ) so I refund you 30 %
refund of 30% is done
Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : find an expert with a scientific backgroung who could say : I could not regrow most of the plants in your pictures
Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : I found a Hoya hobbyist with a doctorate in genetics / medicine / biology, his report says that most plants can be regrown, even without sophisticated techniques / apparatus ; if we went before a court or a referee the decision would be 100% on my side
Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : I added a new rule in my shop for EMS parcels : you can take an insurance for 50 % of the plant price, let's say you took this insurance and I will resend at half price those that are dead, or resend cuttings but you pay the transport cost. Y : ( same request : we want full money back )
A : we can't, we are loyal to all customers, we don't replace plants unless we made a mistake, we don't bend the rules for bigger or long term buyers
the campaign starts on the internet , also the remaining pictures are finally released : it appears that the emulation of 18 dissatisfied girls let them to hide pictures of plants that might produce again roots and leaves after the dormancy caused by the travel. In their anger they tried to hide the real state of the plants in order to ease the request of refund - no proof to see - , planning to use public defamation as a threat instead of trying to care for the dormant plants.
Usually when such problems happen the importers send all pictures to sustain their claim and a solution is found such as resending in a new order for free the same plants or cuts with transport paid by the buyer.
Sunday, April 7, 2013
Item 40 of the Annex IV, deciduous, dormant plants : differing interpretations
The item 40 of the Annex IV says that deciduous trees and shrubs, intending for planting, other than seeds and plants in tissue culture, originating in third countries other than European and Mediterranean countries need and official statement that the plants are dormant and free from leaves.
But the so called deciduous plants are not identified by the Annex IV and the word " deciduous " gives rise to differing interpretations. A tree in its natural environment can be said non decideous or semi deciduous by a source ( phytosanitary employee, botanical encyclopedia ), and deciduous by an other; or some phytosanitary employees will consider that a distinction is to be made between nursery grown plants ( they won't lose their leaves ) and grown in nature.
The dormancy is also diversely interpreted. ( if a plant is reported to be deciduous but is keeping its leaves during the dry season when it is exported, is it dormant at the time it is exported ? )
When websites maintained by plant protection services exist that inform the public about their specific applications of regulations then differing interpretations are not a big problem; or when an import permit lists the practical conditions in which plants can be imported.
Plant importers in countries known to be linked to problems, such as France, should ask, before the plants are imported, the phytosanitary office in charge : which items of the Annex IV apply and what are the practical interpretations regarding leaves, rooting etc.
This is how, below, items were listed on the phytosanitary certificate of a shipment in March to France from Thailand :
FULFILS ITEMS 32.1 ( C ), 32.3 ( C ), 33, 36.1 ( C ) , 45.1 ( C ), AND 46 ( B ) ( C ) OF ANNEX IV AI OF PLANT HEALTH DIRECTIVE
plants were shipped in march, the dry season in which , if deciduous, plants lose their leaves
item 40 is not mentioned as the plants , seen with their leaves on at the time of the control by the phytosanitary office of Thailand the exporting country, were not considered dormant, hence not deciduous ;
In this shipment of 15 species only Aglaia Bauhinia Gardenia and Euclinia were intercepted in March 2013 by the french plant protection bureau while almost all the 11 non intercepted are reported semi deciduous or deciduous by some sources .. and the 4 intercepted are reported semi deciduous ! :
AGLAIA ODORATA, BAUHINIA SPP, BEAUMONTIA GRANDIFLORA, CINNAMOMUM ZEYLANICUM, EUCLINIA LONGIFLORA, GARDENIA SOOTEPENSIS, GARDENIA TUBIFERA, JATROPHA INTEGERRIMA, JATROPHA PODAGRICA, MICHELIA CHAMPACA
ODONTADENIA MACRANTHA, RUSSELIA EQUISETIFORMIS, STROPHANTHUS GRATUS, VALLARIS GLABRA, WRIGHTIA RELIGIOSA
Hoya, Hoya seeds, Orchid seeds, Ferns, Fern spores and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
But the so called deciduous plants are not identified by the Annex IV and the word " deciduous " gives rise to differing interpretations. A tree in its natural environment can be said non decideous or semi deciduous by a source ( phytosanitary employee, botanical encyclopedia ), and deciduous by an other; or some phytosanitary employees will consider that a distinction is to be made between nursery grown plants ( they won't lose their leaves ) and grown in nature.
The dormancy is also diversely interpreted. ( if a plant is reported to be deciduous but is keeping its leaves during the dry season when it is exported, is it dormant at the time it is exported ? )
When websites maintained by plant protection services exist that inform the public about their specific applications of regulations then differing interpretations are not a big problem; or when an import permit lists the practical conditions in which plants can be imported.
Plant importers in countries known to be linked to problems, such as France, should ask, before the plants are imported, the phytosanitary office in charge : which items of the Annex IV apply and what are the practical interpretations regarding leaves, rooting etc.
This is how, below, items were listed on the phytosanitary certificate of a shipment in March to France from Thailand :
FULFILS ITEMS 32.1 ( C ), 32.3 ( C ), 33, 36.1 ( C ) , 45.1 ( C ), AND 46 ( B ) ( C ) OF ANNEX IV AI OF PLANT HEALTH DIRECTIVE
plants were shipped in march, the dry season in which , if deciduous, plants lose their leaves
item 40 is not mentioned as the plants , seen with their leaves on at the time of the control by the phytosanitary office of Thailand the exporting country, were not considered dormant, hence not deciduous ;
 |
| Intercepted plants with leaves |
AGLAIA ODORATA, BAUHINIA SPP, BEAUMONTIA GRANDIFLORA, CINNAMOMUM ZEYLANICUM, EUCLINIA LONGIFLORA, GARDENIA SOOTEPENSIS, GARDENIA TUBIFERA, JATROPHA INTEGERRIMA, JATROPHA PODAGRICA, MICHELIA CHAMPACA
ODONTADENIA MACRANTHA, RUSSELIA EQUISETIFORMIS, STROPHANTHUS GRATUS, VALLARIS GLABRA, WRIGHTIA RELIGIOSA
Hoya, Hoya seeds, Orchid seeds, Ferns, Fern spores and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
Thursday, July 26, 2012
Blackmail, harrassment
At Aleyagarden why do you take pictures of the plants before packing them ?
Some buyers could believe that the plants were damaged or sick, errors could occur when making the parcels ( plants put into the wrong parcel ). In addition to the weight of the parcel, pictures are also convenient to evaluate the plant size. And for our information we keep a record of the confirmation of sending, which is particularly useful when our buyer has ordered envelopes without registration; finally pictures help us prevent defamation and blackmail online, they can even help turn in our favor such defamatory activities.
Usually the offenders are skilled enough in information technology to manipulate information online, by taking, by borrowing several identites and computer identities as well.
Here is an example involving a famous writer :
RJ Ellory, the bestselling British crime writer exposed for writing fake online
reviews lauding himself while criticising rivals, has engaged in the practice
for the past decade, he admitted today
On http://ezinearticles.com/?Should-Victims-of-Online-Reputation-Attacks-And-Online-Intimidation-Report-To-The-Police?&id=6077512 the author says :
" It is not unusual for IT skilled individuals to blackmail their victims by making threats to destroy their victim's reputation unless certain demands being met. " It is worthy to note that many people engaged in plant trade are former IT professionals. But as a matter of fact it is not even necessary to be particularly skilled in IT to use fake names and multiply computer identities ( change the IP addresses of the computer by using programs ).
The author cited above emphasizes that police services lack resources and knowkedge to recognise that online blackmail is a criminal offence, but note that " The civil courts however are much quicker to act in response to online harassment cases with injunctions being granted within days rather than months and years. "
Before resorting to court proceedings one should communicate with fellow sellers to whom different identities are suspicious and seem to hide a single person. If a real name and address are finally exposed ( these real name and address may be easier to catch than expected ) the offenders can face in turn public criticisim. But such criticisim from a panel of professionals or people exposing their identites will have more far-reaching consequences, the internet may also be a dangerous place for criminal offenders online.
Hoya and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
Find all Aleyagarden posts on http://aleyagarden-blog.blogspot.com/
Some buyers could believe that the plants were damaged or sick, errors could occur when making the parcels ( plants put into the wrong parcel ). In addition to the weight of the parcel, pictures are also convenient to evaluate the plant size. And for our information we keep a record of the confirmation of sending, which is particularly useful when our buyer has ordered envelopes without registration; finally pictures help us prevent defamation and blackmail online, they can even help turn in our favor such defamatory activities.
Usually the offenders are skilled enough in information technology to manipulate information online, by taking, by borrowing several identites and computer identities as well.
Here is an example involving a famous writer :
RJ Ellory, the bestselling British crime writer exposed for writing fake online
reviews lauding himself while criticising rivals, has engaged in the practice
for the past decade, he admitted today
On http://ezinearticles.com/?Should-Victims-of-Online-Reputation-Attacks-And-Online-Intimidation-Report-To-The-Police?&id=6077512 the author says :
" It is not unusual for IT skilled individuals to blackmail their victims by making threats to destroy their victim's reputation unless certain demands being met. " It is worthy to note that many people engaged in plant trade are former IT professionals. But as a matter of fact it is not even necessary to be particularly skilled in IT to use fake names and multiply computer identities ( change the IP addresses of the computer by using programs ).
The author cited above emphasizes that police services lack resources and knowkedge to recognise that online blackmail is a criminal offence, but note that " The civil courts however are much quicker to act in response to online harassment cases with injunctions being granted within days rather than months and years. "
Before resorting to court proceedings one should communicate with fellow sellers to whom different identities are suspicious and seem to hide a single person. If a real name and address are finally exposed ( these real name and address may be easier to catch than expected ) the offenders can face in turn public criticisim. But such criticisim from a panel of professionals or people exposing their identites will have more far-reaching consequences, the internet may also be a dangerous place for criminal offenders online.
Hoya and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
Find all Aleyagarden posts on http://aleyagarden-blog.blogspot.com/
Monday, March 21, 2011
imidacloprid from Bayer, a pesticide used in Thailand by plant exporters
Under a EU rule for plant protection, the phytosanitary agents control each month that in Thai nurseries as of April 2011 no ornamental plants could be exported without having been treated by the pesticide imidacloprid from Bayer; this pesticide was created to fight white flies, such as tabacci in the genus Bemisia, that have an important role in the transmission of plant diseases causing economic losses estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars.However imidacloprid, is an over the counter and commercial pesticide extremely toxic to the environment so France, Italy, Germany and Slovenia have banned uses of it within their borders following mass lethal effects on bee populations. Moreover this control of white flies is complex as they rapidly gain resistance to chemical pesticides. The USDA recommends "an integrated program that focuses on prevention and relies on cultural and biological control methods when possible."
Question : imidacloprid ranks among Bayer´s best-selling insecticides ( in 2009 sales of imidacloprid were over € 600 million.) How to relate economic losses from plant diseases driven by white flies and sales of imidacloprid, that are also losses in the final buyers' accounts ? Needless to say, if 1 $ of crop loss is balanced by 1 $ of imidacloprid cost to the grower the global gain, from a pure accounting perspective, is 0. And the figure for the environment and human health is by far negative
Moreover imidacloprid is know to induce the reproduction of acarians.
Taking in account environmental effects of this pesticide, white flies resistance and the fact that lethal diseases can incur from undetected long term chemical exposure, by far better options than the use of this product would consist in the governmental supports of biological control methods, financial support to farms that lost crops or compulsory insurance.
In Thailand a financial assistance to farms that suffered loss from floods already exists. Fortunately this assistance doesn't poison our planet. Loss incurred by floods are certainly much higher than those incurred by white flies borne pathogens.
Hoya and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
Find all Aleyagarden posts on http://aleyagarden-blog.blogspot.com
resources on imidacloprid :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidaclopridhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imidacloprid_effects_on_bee_population
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2010/11/467782.html
http://beeandgarden.com/?p=68
Hoya and other plant collections are for sale on aleyagarden.com Plant care is available in various posts of this blog. Contact : aleyagarden@hotmail.com
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